Katharine Button, MD (Host): Welcome back to For Peds Sake, the podcast where we tackle the big questions in pediatric health and wellness. I'm Dr. Kari Button, and today we are diving into a topic that affects so many children and families, bullying. Joining me is the incredible Dr. Marina Villani-Capo, a Psychologist here at Nicklaus Children's Hospital.

Welcome Dr. Villani-Capo.

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to have this important conversation with you today.

Host: Bullying is such a complex issue. Let's start by defining it. What exactly is bullying? And how does it differ from just typical conflict between kids?

Yes, that's a great question. Bullying involves repeated, and this is the key word, intentional behaviors where there is an imbalance of power. It can be physical, verbal, social, emotional, and nowadays it can also go as far as cyberbullying with different things like social exclusion of different templates and things like that. But the important thing between differentiating between conflict and bullying is that conflict you don't have that imbalance of power. Where in bullying there is that imbalance of power and it's intentional. It is not just a disagreement.

Host: That makes so much sense. With so many children experiencing bullying in different forms today, how can parents recognize the warning signs?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: I always say parents are the experts in their children. Different signs can be sudden changes in mood or behaviors like withdrawal, anxiety, or even irritability. Parents might also notice physical signs such as headaches or unexplained GI symptoms, or avoidance behaviors like not wanting to go to school or participating in activities that they usually would have loved to participate in.

Host: Those are such great points. And what about the kids themselves? How can we help them identify when they're being bullied and then also help them feel empowered to speak up?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: So yes, it depends on their age level, right? and their developmental stage. But it's really important to empower kids from a very young age to be able to identify how they feel. The first step is identify how you feel and then help them be assertive and communicate how they feel, even if they're uncomfortable or scared to do so.

By opening those types of conversation with your child, like how do you feel, and then being able to be creative with them. I think creativity is no longer in our society as much as it was a long time ago, but helping our children to be creative in problem solution and making them part of the solution, is something that is really important during this process to address bullying.

Host: That's such a great point. I like the message about creativity. Let's talk about solutions. What are some practical strategies for parents and for teachers and for other caregivers to help support a child who's being bullied?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: The first thing is to listen, right? We need to listen to be able to validate their feelings after. Let them know it's not their fault and that their feelings are valid. Because sometimes, you know, as parents you want to say, no that didn't really happen or are you sure? So those are things that could be very invalidating to a child.

So avoiding those things and I think the hardest thing as a parent is to just listen without trying to come up with recommendations or solutions right away. So listening will be the first thing.

Then work with them to develop strategies to address the situation, whether it's reporting the bullying, which can be very hard. You can say, have you told your teachers? And your child's eyes might open and be like, are you crazy? I'm not a snitch or I don't want to be identified as someone that will rat out my friends or that will just make the situation worse. So then this is where creativity has to come into play and say, okay, so do you have an adult at school that you can trust, like a counselor or a teacher, a specific teacher that you can go to?

But it's really important that you empower them to say something. And finding safe spaces at school. So maybe the bullying is happening in the cafeteria. Can you have lunch outside on the patio with some of your friends? Or is the bullying happening in a specific classroom? If we can avoid that classroom, can we get through that class and then find a safe space where we can process with a counselor or go and have a little moment where we can practice mindfulness or practice our assertive skills or something like that. Finding those safe spaces, is really important for them. And then school has a really big responsibility.

I think, you as a caregiver going to school and advocating for your child is your right. And I think a lot of caregivers don't know that, but you can actually go to the school and advocate for your child's safety. Because sometimes bullying can be from the perspective of the caregiver, it might not be dangerous in a physical way, but unfortunately sometimes bullying can go to that dangerous part.

And it's our jobs as caregivers to advocate for our children, and it's the school's job to be able to make every student there feel safe. So yeah, going to the school is my last recommendation.

Host: These are such great messages, I love it. So, listening first, we instinctively want to solve first, but listening, being creative, finding a safe space and advocating. I love those messages. So bullying doesn't just happen in person anymore as we know. There's online bullying or what we call cyber bullying is becoming more and more common and sometimes can be really hard for parents to detect.

Dr. Villani-Capo, how does cyber bullying differ from in person bullying and what should parents look out for

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: Yeah, cyberbullying is something that started now with the boom of social media. It's funny because when I talk to my grandparents or parents about the subject of bullying, they're like, oh, back in the day you just, you know, punch it out or scream it out and it will be fine, right? I always laugh and I say, yeah, but you know, nowadays you could have left those things at school and you would go home where it was your safe space and you can play outside and you can have, this space to process and just be a kid.

Host: Nowadays. Exactly.

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: So nowadays it's completely different because it follows you home. Especially there's a lot of research on how cyberbullying impacts young girls with social isolation. So you will not get tagged in a picture or nobody will like your picture, things like that, that maybe for different generations doesn't mean as much for our generation nowadays of children, that is cyberbullying and it follows them home.

Home is no longer a safe space. They're attached to their phone. So it's constant. It doesn't stop. And it's sometimes anonymous, so you don't even know who to be assertive with or how to even maybe solve the issue because it's coming at you from different ways, from different platforms, so it's not only in person.

Host: And online is a part of their school life too. It's an integral part of everything.

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: Yes, so you cannot just take the phone away, for example, but you can always block. That's what I tell my patients, you have the power to block people out of your social medias. You have the power to delete messages that you find that are hurtful, and you also have the power to report it. All of the social media platforms have buttons or little things that like little flags that you can actually report a patient, like someone's comments, for example. So you do have power, even if you feel like you don't, when it comes to cyberbullying.

Host: It's such a great message. And is that what you would say to families in terms of how to protect their children from cyberbullying?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: Yes, for me, it's really important for caregivers to promote media savvy and like social media savvy, what is real, what is not real, and model that for them. Like, for example, if you have a caregiver and they're always on their phone and they're engaging in this type of behavior, and your child sees it because they follow you, for example, you're instilling that that's okay to talk to people in a way that's not positive or kind. So always model the behavior that you want your child to follow within yourself first, so they can actually be kind in social media. Like social media, I think it just gives people permission to not always be kind. So modeling that yourself at home is really important and having open communication with your children like why this person did this or helping them figure out different ways that that doesn't apply to them.

For example, like, hey, that's just an opinion and opinions are not facts. This is not to you. And another big thing is I always tell parents when they're young, like middle schoolers, you have to see what your child is doing in social media. You have to be on it. It's okay to go through their social media posts and see who's posting with them or making comments on their posts and like, I don't identify that person. Who is this person? Do you know this person? And then blocking them if they're not part of your child's immediate circle. Like it's on the caregiver when they're younger.

Host: And that's a great message because that can feel intrusive, but in fact you're helping and protecting them. Now, what about the other side of the coin? So how do we look for solutions where a child might be engaging in bullying behaviors themselves, and whether that's in person or online, how do we address that?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: That can be really tough. I've seen myself in social media posts of parents, like, putting little posters on their child, like, I'm a bully. Honk once if you agree that this is wrong and things like that. And then social media gets in an uproar, like, what would be the right thing to address and how to navigate that.

But it's really rough. But I think it's important to approach it without judgment. And you have to, like, stay calm and really be able to have a conversation. If you're not able to have a conversation where you don't raise your voice and you can't stay calm, maybe take a day or two to process before you address it with your child.

Because often children who bully are struggling with their own issues that maybe the caregiver has no idea. Maybe they're struggling with self esteem issues. Maybe they were bullied when they were younger and now they feel like they have a sense of power and control over the situation so therefore they're gonna do the bullying before they do it to them.

So helping them understand the impact of their actions and working on building empathy is key. And professional support is also very helpful. So if you find like you don't have the tools or the language, or you feel like you're out of your depth with this situation, and it comes to you by a complete shock, there's always very good research out there in the community that you can always do a quick search on like how to open that conversation up with your child or you can always talk to your pediatrician and your pediatrician can always refer you back to mental health professionals that can help you navigate the situation.

Host: So I'm hearing themes of listening, building trust, and constant open communication in thinking about bullying.

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: Yeah, it's simple right but it gets lost in translation sometimes.

Host: Dr. Villani-Capo, this has been such an insightful and helpful conversation. Before we wrap up, what final piece of advice would you give to families dealing with bullying?

Marina Villani-Capo, PsyD: I would just say take it step by step, first listen. If you don't have the right words or you feel like you need help, there's plenty of help out there. There's YouTube videos in our Nicklaus Children's YouTube site in both Spanish and English that will help you also navigate the topic of bullying and other topics with like mood dysregulation disorders and things like that. Always reach out to your pediatrician if you have additional concerns and just be kind and empathetic and be the model that you want your child to follow.

Host: I love those parting words. That's perfect. Thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your expertise.

To all of our listeners, if you have found this episode helpful, be sure to share it with other parents, caregivers, and educators. Remember, at Nicklaus Children's Hospital, we're here to support you every step of the way. Thanks for tuning in, and we will see you next time on For Peds Sake.